A bit of the interview on The Daily Show between host Jon Stewart and Ronald Kessler, author of the book "The Terrorist Watch: Inside the Desperate Race To Stop the Next Attack." I cut some of the interview and left the parts where Kessler specifically discusses waterboarding and torture (or dances around the issues).

The Daily Show -- Comedy Central
12 March 2008

STEWART: What do you think of the more coercive stuff, the waterboarding and such?

KESSLER: I think it was fine in that particular situation. Most of the time, the CIA does not want to use waterboarding. They want to use cooperation. But in that case, there was a threat that there would be a second wave of attacks. These guys were not talking. They had to get information, and they did. And they stopped plots that killed, or would have killed people.

STEWART: Does that hurt or help us in the long run?

KESSLER: I think, in the long run, if we protected ourselves from another attack, that's the most important thing. You know, it's true that the Iraq war has contributed to the hatred...you know, it's used as a propaganda tool.

.....

STEWART: You are...you're getting...but the thing about waterboarding that always struck me is, even if it saved some lives, do we give up too much of our soul to do that? Because isn't the measure of a country how it handles itself in difficult times, not in easy times? It's very easy to say, "We abide by the Geneva Convention," until we found out somebody wants to hurt us and then, hey man, everybody for themselves.

KESSLER: Well, actually the Geneva Conventions allow this, because these people are not regular military people in uniforms...

STEWART: The Geneva Conventions allow you to waterboard people who don't wear uniforms?

KESSLER: Yeah, because they're not...these are people who behead people, they don't abide by...

STEWART: That may be a technicality. I'm not sure that the spirit of the Geneva Conventions is, like, "Hey look, if they don't have a hat, do whatever you want. ((laughter))

KESSLER: Our own Special Operations forces are, in fact, subjected to waterboarding as part of their training, so....

STEWART: Because they might have it done to them.

KESSLER: Exactly. And it's not torture in the sense that it's painful. That's what torture is defined as...It's harsh...

STEWART: That's an argument that's tough to make, that it's not actually....drowning someone is torture. ((laughter)) The only point I was going to make was we prosecuted the Japanese for waterboarding our soldiers in World War II.

KESSLER: It was a different kind of waterboarding. ((laughter)) It actually involved...

STEWART: What did we waterboard on [Temperapedics]? ((laughter)) What do you mean? How different? What kind of water?

KESSLER: Using real water, as opposed to just covering them with cellophane and giving the impression, but...the important thing is...

STEWART: This is like the mock apple pie of waterboarding, that we do. ((laughter)) It's not a real-type waterboarding thing.

KESSLER: And actually, it was only used three times, and not since 2003. Now, they are not going to use it anymore. So it really is moot. The important thing is....

STEWART: We learned our lesson.

KESSLER: OK. ((laughter)) I'm agreeable. But the important thing is, we have not been attacked, it's because of these measures, it's because of the Patriot Act even though that's demonized.

STEWART: But it's hard to point to causation because they're so secretive. I mean, what they're saying is, "Trust us, it's because of this," even though a lot of the other things you found about us have turned out to be less than credible.

KESSLER: Well, we know that these terrorists are being rolled up all the time. We know they are being rolled up because of these measures, including the Patriot Act. You know, the librarian thing....